Over the years, the international art world has been enriched by the collaborative work of many artist-couples. Examples include the work of pairs such as Mike and Doug Starn (identical twin brothers), Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo (husband and wife), and Jake and Dinos Chapman (brothers).
Some same-sex partners, of course, round out the list. From England, there is the provocative work of Gilbert & George. From France, the homoerotic photography of Pierre et Gilles. And now, from Argentina, artist-lovers Leo Chiachio and Daniel Giannone, collaborating since 2001, are bringing change to art and culture in Buenos Aires, where some traditional sexual taboos persist.
I spoke with Leo and Daniel about seduction, embroidery, self portraits, Asian influences, love, ornamentation, Kabuki theatre, porno mags, Farrah Fawcett, art, queer culture in Argentina, Madonna, Mishima, toilets, their son-dog, and of course glitter. Read the Spanish version here.
Rafael Esquer: So, the first thing EVB wants to know is, who picked up who?
Daniel Giannone: It was 2001 in Argentina, and the country was going through a devastating financial crisis. Everyone was affected including, of course, the art world. It was then when visual artist Chino Soria had the idea of transforming his home into an art gallery. He invited 40 guest artists to exhibit. One weekend Leo’s piece "Happy" was on display. And I attended...
Leo Chiachio: First, we checked each other out, then, on a balcony I kissed Daniel. Apparently, it was a kiss that left a lasting impression.
DG: I was hooked. I wanted a second meeting, for a second kiss. Days went by. Our second date was at the Rojas Cultural Center. This time I was ready to jump Leo!
LC: Our rendezvous was Bar Cipriano, where we drank and listened to music. We ended up at my place. We’ve never been apart since.
RE: So, what came first?
D&L: In this order: seduction, sex, love, art.
RE: How do these things influence each other?
D&L: The love we feel for each other feeds us, thus nourishing the creation of our art. It's all in a constant communion.
RE: When you were ten years old, how would you have answered the question “What do you want to be when you grow up?”
DG: What I told people was either a lawyer or a veterinarian, but secretly I wanted to be a classic dancer, a painter, a movie star or a soap opera actor.
LC: An artist, a veterinarian or a singer (a famous one, obviously!)
RE: As your artistic medium, you chose needlework, stitchery, and embroidery — all traditionally feminine pursuits. Why?
DG: We are interested in rescuing those activities that slowly have been relegated to the feminine world. We’d like to show that, as two men, we are totally free to enter and inhabit such a world.
LC: Also, after many years of being indoctrinated by academia, we now want to ignore it and bring to our work as painters, materials that belong to the crafts – those materials we used as children (glitter, embroidery, etc). As adults we want to play like children.
RE: Daniel, you started embroidery at a young age, taught by the nuns in your Catholic school. How did you start embroidery Leo?
LC: When I was very young I started making art on t-shirts and old shirts handed down by friends. Even though it was a time of economic crisis, the desire to create was even stronger, so I started making art with the materials I found around the house such as thread, clothes, buttons and so on. I used to like buying useless stuff in American flea markets. I would carefully save them as if they were treasures found on a deserted island.
RE: Well, not all your work is made of fabric and thread. I’m intrigued by “Collectable Throne.” Tell me about it.
D&L: We made it for the Cultural Center Recoleta in Buenos Aires. They invited selected artists to make an art piece using a toilet, so, we covered it with glitter, which we’ve been using in our work for quite some time. Our idea was to transform the toilet into a throne through beauty, with imagery from an imagined paradise where fire rises from beneath. It culminates as a paradise inhabited by us, surrounded with flowers. Love prevails in paradise - a world of flowers and love.
RE: Looking at your work and its use of atypical “artist’s tools” or materials makes me wonder what kind of stuff you collected as a child?
DG: Dolls, the same that my sister Nora had. I loved the ones made of velvet and glitter. Also, I collected postage stamps and art magazines. And as a teenager, I had a crazy collection of Farrah Fawcett photos.
LC: Tons of figurines, cars and any kind of magazine. And as a teenager, gay porno mags!
RE: What do you collect now?
D&L: Contemporary art created by our friends, art and design books, DVD collections (Sex & The City, The Sopranos, Six Feet Under) and Italian music.
RE: Diana Vreeland once said that we all need a splash of bad taste. What’s yours?
D&L: We are not sure if we have one, too many, or whether our life is full of splashes! We love Brazilian soap operas, B-movies, gossip magazines, American Idol auditions, reality shows…
RE: A few years back, EVB discovered some of Leo’s pieces – homoerotic images created by penetrating paper with a needle. Daniel, what were you doing back then?
DG: Acrylic and oil painting.
RE: Your opus is primarily self-portraits, right?
DG: Yes, but in addition to our self-portraits we also paint “Piolin”, our son-dog.
RE: Who else would you like to do a portrait of?
D&L: Saint Sebastian, the nudes of Botticelli, Andy Warhol, Marie Antoinette, Joan of Arc, Madonna, Nicole Kidman, Robert Downey Jr., Daryl Hannah, Ney Matogrosso.
RE: I see Asian influence in your work…
D&L: Yes, what’s interesting to us about many very traditional Asian cultures is how, from the very beginning, love stories between men (samurais, actors) get told despite the cultural taboos against them. In Japan, for example, in traditional kabuki theatre, women’s roles are played by men who start at a very early age. For many, this becomes their sweet sentence.
RE: Tell me about your interest in queer culture.
D&L: The interest has always been there, but it’s becoming increasingly stronger since we got together. We let art take total control of our lives, and we live our love freely. We value being part of this grand movement, increasingly growing, that is bringing change to a traditional society strongly rooted in Catholicism. Being openly and visibly gay means to be alive, to belong and to be protagonists of change, of history.
RE: Speaking of… can you share your impressions of queer culture in Argentina?
D&L: Since Argentina is a big country, we will speak mainly of Buenos Aires. In the last few years there’s been more acceptance of everything queer. That is, the creation of civil unions for same-sex couples, gay film festivals, many groups and organizations, gay pride, gay cruise ships that stop in Buenos Aires, more visibility of gays and lesbians in the media, even an exclusively gay five-star hotel. Lately, Buenos Aires has become an important gay-friendly destination.
RE: Is Argentina or South America ready for Leo and Daniel?
D&L: In Buenos Aires, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Down here being homosexual is still a big taboo. It’s not common to see two men living together. It’s still not accepted that two artists publicly create together using themselves as the subject of their work. A public gay relationship is not fully accepted. But we feel change is in the air.
RE: When you work and live together, what happens when you fight? What’s happens to your collaboration?
D&L: We discuss, talk and constantly speak up. We don’t always agree on what we want, but we’ve learned to listen to each other. This has made our relationship richer. It empowers the creative process. The diversity of thought makes us stronger. Fights slow down the creative process. Synergy is always present. Constant dialogue is indispensable to grow.
RE: Have any of your pieces caused controversy?
D&L: Often people are interested in knowing who made what, or they want to know the intimate parts of the creative process - the intimacy of our lives. Other times, controversy happens when questioning the conceptual part of the art. The interest lies in wanting to know the creative universe inhabited by two gay artists sharing their home and their art. Society has trouble understanding that it can be possible - but IT IS.
RE: Saint Sebastian, Yukio Mishima - what other gay characters influence your work? Who will show up in the future?
D&L: Our world is influenced by many disciplines like fashion – John Galliano, Alexander McQueen, Vivienne Westwood. Cinema – Pier Paolo Pasolini, Gregg Araki, Takeshi Kitano, Bruce LaBruce, Rosa von Praunheim. Music – Rufus Wainwright, George Michael, Madonna, Grace Jones, Ney Matogrosso. Literature – Yukio Mishima, David Leavitt. And urban legends like Irupé’s Love and El Pombero.
On the other hand, we are interested in how throughout history the roles or men have changed. Unlike the animal kingdom, men’s ornamentation in every civilization has changed. Historically, men have been more exotic in their adornment – hair, jewelry, make up – than women. However, this tradition has been relegated to women, demanding of men a universal image that is supposed to be virile and uniform. Globalization has contributed to make this tough male image universal. It is an aesthetic that has taken over the Western and Eastern worlds alike.
RE: How do you want to be remembered one hundred years from now?
D&L: As two men who learned how to transform their art into a way of living.
RE: What is your next adventure?
D&L: We are creating an embroidery series where we depict ourselves as aboriginals of every civilization. We dream of showing our work around the world. We’d like to have a show in New York, to have Galliano commission us to do an embroidery piece, and to have Madonna come to us for her portrait.
All images © Leo Chiachio and Daniel Giannone.
Click "more" for the Spanish version of this interview.
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