GRAB OUR FEED
by
Richard Welch
31-May-10
Thomas Dozol is a considered, charming French guy who spends his time between New York, Paris and Athens, Georgia, and a talented emerging photographer who has, for his New York City debut exhibition, managed to capture people in the raw, private and unprepared. The combination of vulnerability and natural beauty, informed by his use of light to create an intimate experience is powerful - powerful as much for the sheer beauty as for what it says about public and private identity in a world increasingly obsessed with image. We sat down together over Campari and sodas and chatted about his art, relationships and prefernece for watching over being watched.
Portraits of Thomas shot for EVB by Michael Stipe
Richard Welch: How did you end up in New York? What's your story so far?
Thomas Dozol: I studied in Paris and was in college forever. I guess I'm a late bloomer. After college I went into theater, and then, around 2001, I realized acting was totally burning me out so I came to New York for a change and a break. I found acting here was very difficult, mainly because of the visas and stuff. Also, I didn't really know if I still wanted to act. I became friends with The Citizens Band, and started photographing them. I'd been taking pictures for a few years, and I realized that I preferred shooting to being shot.
Richard: How was the transition from being in front of the lens, to being behind it?
Thomas: I always felt I was really bad in front of the lens. I liked theater - you can't see the audience in a theater. The bigger the stage the better. You have to be so focused in theater that you actually forget they're there. Part of what I love about taking pictures is that it's about caring for the people I photograph and making them feel comfortable, because I'm really not. That's my focus in general when I take portraits.
Richard: You're socially uncomfortable or...
Thomas: No, no, no, I'm only uncomfortable when someone takes my picture. I'm terrible at being photographed.
Richard: Oh, okay. So your blog - it pretty much documents your life I assume?
Thomas: Yeah, but I started that when I was preparing my first show in Atlanta. It started as an experiment leading up to the show, but then it just kept going, because once you start a blog, it needs constant feeding.
Richard: We know all about that! Speaking of food, you seem to always be at dinner!
Thomas: Ha! There are a lot of dinners! And a lot more dinners to come!
Richard: Is it difficult to keep the blog fresh?
Thomas: I shoot on film, so there's always a weird delay until the film comes back.
Richard: You only shoot film?
Thomas: Yep, everything is on film.
Richard: You've shot for French Vogue. What did you shoot for them?
Thomas: I was shooting portraits. I don't shoot fashion, so it was just, like, stylish girls in their apartments with their stylish things.
Richard: When did you decide you wanted to live in New York?
Thomas: I made the move in 2003 or 2002, I'm bad with dates, something like that. My boyfriend lived in America, and it was getting complicated going back and forth.
Richard: Your first show was in Atlanta and it was titled I'll Be Your Mirror, which I assume developed into your recent New York show?
Thomas: Yeah, I started a project, and as it progressed I thought, "okay, I want this to be my first show." I worked on it for about a year before I started shooting, and I kept getting delayed. I just needed a deadline, and that was the show. But once I did the show I realized I was only halfway there.
Richard: The show was titled Entre Temp, which is travelling to São Paulo in the fall, means "in between". Can you kind of expand on that idea?
Thomas: I guess it's about capturing moments that are not defined by their activity or what's going on. It's really supposed to be a thing that goes by really fast. Something that's not really meaningful, and usually when I ask people they go, "oh, I don't know what I do." Usually they have to think about it. You just go through the motions, and then while you go through the motions, your mind is already somewhere else, and I can grab your body in a different amount of tension.
Richard: For that series, all of your subjects are flushed after having had a hot shower.
Thomas: Exactly, that's why I started the project. It was about the blood to the skin. I wanted people to be raw. I think it's getting harder and harder because we all now have so much control over our image. People have become accustomed to being snapped and snapping their friends all the time... you know, people always have that face, or expression that they know. I wanted to move beyond that, I get super flushed and I hate it because I can't control it, and I was like, "Oh, that's the point." I'll put people in a situation where they have accepted a loss of control over their physicality and look.
Richard: In a world of social media many people on the one hand seem to be crafting a complex and idealized image of themselves, while on the other hand the notion of personal privacy has been virtually eroded. Before I met you I Googled you, and you probably Googled me...
Thomas: Which is sort of why I have a blog, because it allows me to control the information that's out there. You want to be able to present it otherwise it's going to come from somewhere anyway, so you want to try to have control of your output. The Google thing is kind of fascinating. I think it's great, actually, because you have an idea of a person before you meet them. It makes for less awkward silences. It gives an end, but once you meet them it creates a parallel.
Richard: How do you think the concept of privacy is changing?
Thomas: I'm not sure I actually understand it. I think for people who are, like, ten years younger than me, it's a different world I can't really comprehend. The way I think of privacy is probably a different concept than theirs. I don't know what their concept of privacy is now - it's probably what you edit, what you choose to put out there. You control the output more than protect it. Just re-edit I guess, because it's going to come from the internet at some point.
Richard: How did you cast your subjects? Many are recognizable - are they all your friends?
Thomas: Are they real friends? Yeah! Actually, not all of them. It started with just friends. Originally I wasn't going to shoot anyone that was recognizable. I kind of shied away from that because I didn't want it to be all about celebrity, then a friend of mine was like, "just ask the people that you like." It seemed contrived of me to take that out, but I treated them the same way. The nudity element caused the tension - that was very interesting to me.
Richard: The French are traditionally very comfortable with nudity and intimacy.
Thomas: Yeah, we are. I'm not. I'm a bit more comfortable taking photos of nudity.
Richard: Did you shoot these people in their morning, whatever hour that happened to be?
Thomas: It ended up being whenever people could fit me in. Scheduling was the hardest part of the project, because it's kind of hard in the morning, and plus, all these should develop alike, so there was also that factor. They were really taking the showers to get them... in that headspace, usually in the morning. The shower has enough of an effect that people were in their own heads. It was really a short time that I had for them to be totally unguarded.
Richard: And how was it shooting more well-known people compared to shooting people who aren't in the "public arena"?
Thomas: Honestly, the hardest people to photograph are the photographers. The photographer friends. Those were the hard and difficult ones. The "known" people, like... Michael [Stipe] was complicated... just because, I don't know. Gwyneth [Paltrow] was great, she was like "whatever... what do you want me to do".
Richard: Did you find that the celebrities never wanted to take off their 'mask'?
Thomas: I think what's interesting is that it's not just the celebrities, everyone has a way they control their own image in the same way that a celebrity might, and I like the tension. You're still able to see how much people try to control anything seeping through. I like when you are able to see the two in one image.
Richard: Your show in New York was at Envoy Enterprises, where most of the shows are by gay or queer artists...
Thomas: Everything is queer!
Richard: Do you think that's a positive or a negative. Is it self-ghettoization?
Thomas: Well, you work with some of their artists and photographers. I first went to check out the work of Paul Sepuya, and that's how I found out about Envoy, and I really liked it. It seemed to me like there was a sense of empowerment of queer culture in general. I just wanted to be part of that. The art world can be shockingly compartmentalized - it's kind of ghettoized. But at the same time I was, like, "great, I'm queer!" There's nothing wrong with that, and my work is not going to be defined by that, but I'm just happy to be part of that community. But I like the question of Envoy being a queer gallery, and how people are very still wary of it. I think it's a totally valid and interesting question. I don't feel gay whatsoever because I feel that "gay" isn't very specifically determined. Culture-wise it doesn't define me.
Richard: So you don't consider yourself "gay"? You prefer "queer"?
Thomas: I mean, yeah, I sleep with men, or however you say it, but it just seems that "gay" is very... the way it's perceived now is very culturally specific.
Richard: You mentioned shooting Michael was "complicated", so how was it for you and him to be shot by Todd Selby, taking into consideration your dislike of being in front of the camera?
Thomas: Right, did you notice how bad I am at being photographed?
Richard: No!
Thomas: Okay, fine.
Richard: So, for the Selby shoot you're in your home, you're private space. I imagine that being the partner of somebody who is very recognizable, they often treat their home space as a sanctuary, something they might not want to share with the world?
Thomas: Well, two things. Firsty that was a long time ago, and that was before Todd was so successful. I just found his website through... I can't really remember how I found it, but I was clicking through and was thinking "this is amazing," and, then Michael wanted to spend a whole night looking at every single apartment - so we were obsessed with it. Then we were at an art show with a friend who was like, "Oh, I know Todd," and I said, "Oh, he's amazing. We would love to be part of that." And we were moving that week so we had piles of stuff everywhere - it was like an installation. It was so crazy, and we said "we've got to document this, this is perfect."
Richard: There are a few comments that...
Thomas: I know! people were commenting, like, "they're such slobs!"
Richard: Especially for gay men!
Thomas: We're not very typically gay, but... so, yeah, that's what it was.
Richard: Being in a relationship with someone who's famous - is that difficult?
Thomas: No... It's great! Being an actor, that was weird, because there's such a stigma... I was always thinking, "oh, I can't be a gay actor in a gay relationship with someone famous. That was a problem then. Actually, that was when I was thinking about it. But as a photographer, people can see your work and judge it. No, I haven't had any bad reaction from it at all.
Richard: Which contemporary artists are you inspired by?
Thomas: Paul Sepuya, I love what he's doing and his vision. Wolfgang Tillmans is definitely someone that's a total inspiration, and Taryn Simon. I would say those three in photography.
Richard: Finally, what are you working on at the moment?
Thomas: At the moment, I working on a series of still lifes. I haven't started shooting yet, I'm prepping, but I'm going to be shooting large format which I have never done before, just because I want to make it more complicated - why not?
